1. I completely spaced the fact that the Calvary Chapel Senior Pastors Conference is happening this week. While I can tell you what will be happening to a degree, what won’t be happening is anything that even looks remotely like a reformation. Thus, there isn’t much of interest to me except from the historical view of watching a movement getting ready to end and morph into many other movements when the founder is gone. I’m sure there will be protestations of solidarity and continuity, but I already know of splits in the making.
2. I ended a discussion here last week on the topic of whether Mormons can be Christians. While I hate drawing lines theologically, lines have to be drawn when we are speaking about non Christian cults that appropriate the name of our Lord for their false gods. Your can name your cat Jesus, but he still won’t walk on water.
3. We need to be both zealous and jealous for the name of our Lord against the cults…but be every bit as zealous in preserving the unity of the Spirit with orthodox brethren. If your theological time is mainly taken with trashing Calvinists, Arminians, or whoever else doesn’t fit your little paradigm despite their orthodoxy, you are in sin. While you are sinning against the brethren, the cults advance and giggle…
4. Sometimes I have to laugh at myself…I never examine a passage I’m preaching on now without consulting N.T. Wright in the process.
5. Someone emailed me last week and asked where I thought I would land theologically…I hope I never do. The foundation is firm, but there’s a lot to explore.
6. Theological debate is a good and healthy practice among orthodox believers if done to learn and educate. If done to condemn, it is sin. Period.
7. God bless those men and women trying to be a Gospel light in the public schools. What a battleground the minds of our children has become.
8. I’d like to do an online study on Eph 4 and how it demands a certain amount of ecumenicism, but wonder if anyone would participate…
9. It’s so strange to have one of my favorite sports teams playing for a championship that I can hardly bear to watch it. I’ve followed the same teams since I was a child…and I’m past 50 now. Go Kings!
10. Our friend JJS has shocked the Reformed world by resigning the PCA. I will hear him out on this matter before I say a word.
132 Responses to “Things I Think”
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#7 Thanks, Michael. As I’ve said before, I’m a public school teacher. I’m teaching 8th Grade history next year, which is U.S. History. State law now requires I teach about homosexuals in history only in relation to their positive contributions to history. As a historian and Christian, I cannot do this. The matter is not a matter of historiography, and defies my faith. Pray for me.
DavidH,
I’m thinking that we need to be praying for you and all the teachers here by name, daily.
The culture that children are bringing into the schools combined with the one being imposed by the state makes it a total battleground for the souls of the kids.
God bless you and thank you for standing for the little ones.
We will pray.
Stellman, if you’re reading, I completely understand. I’ve been round and round the Sola S and F and applying a Philosophically Logical filter to the “official” canon of Scripture for many years. Scripture is paradoxical / dualistic and often contradicts itself in word and example many times. Doesn’t mean it is God’s Word, and I think it’s intentionally that way for God’s purposes. There are a ton of boxes out there (30,000+ denoms and then Mainlines) etc. Everyone thinks they have the ‘magic’ correct formula, etc. I think they’re all ‘correct’ to some degree and I’m increasingly convinced that one’s level of ‘correctness’ regarding doctrine is less important than one’s ‘correctness’ with how they interact with God and their conscience and others…even though there are solid Scriptural arguments to the contrary and vise versa (with many twists).
At the end of the day, we know very very little. We’re mostly guessing (in the context of what is ‘correct’). It can be boiled down to a few Core Foundational Beliefs and then after that I think the Holy Spirit sparks the variety…either that or the RCC or EO is the ‘correct’ way and has the ‘correct’ Bishops/Apostles/Elders due to Apostolic Succession and Authority from their blood-line to the Early Church (but I don’t think that is correct, I think they are merely one of many flavors that God has allowed b/c folks tick so differently and process stuff so differently).
God understands humans better than we do…He created us
31 Flavors is in our nature 
Or, the Reformation was a rebellion against God’s Authority Structure which led to lack of Unity and peace in the greater Body of Christ. It’s a tough one. I don’t agree with that, but there seems to be only 2 options.
1. God intended the vast differences of ‘correct’ and engineered the 30,000+ denoms and mainlines and all their differences and disagreements to make the Gospel more palatable for a variety of humans who tick differently and are, in fact, like a bunch of finicky cats (to pull from Michael
).
2. The Reformation was a rebellion against God’s intended Unified Church with one Authority Structure, one Authority doing the interpreting and making the judgments etc. and not the cluster we have now.
I’m at #1.
Typo: Doesn’t mean it ISN’T God’s Word (above). I believe Scripture is God’s Word (was inspired) and is part of God’s plan and will.
My wife has been in the school system for years. She works with kids with learning disabilities to improve their speech.
So many of these children come from homes that realistically can’t even be seen as homes. Many parents have zero interest in their child’s education outside of seeing the school as free babysitting. There is no attempt to encourage or help these children. I wonder what chance they have of staying out of trouble let alone in school as they get older.
Teachers and aides are at times the only role models or positive influence these children have as parents are in and out of jail, employed and unemployed, moving from place to place, feeding their children nothing but fast food and candy and letting electronic gadgets do the child care.
On top of that you have what David H describes. It’s a real battle field as at times it seems everything is lined up to see that our children don’t have a chance. Thank God for those in the system who care and seek to make a difference.
As a pastor who is currently going through a very difficult resignation with my church I can resonate with JJS.
The church is a dangerous place…for member and leader.
It’s not that we shoot our wounded, that might actually be merciful. We stand over our wounded mocking them and then pour salt in their wounds — with a smile and the obligatory mention of prayer of course. I wish someone would just put a bullet in my head.
Erunner,
I try to stay close to the school despite my schedule and it’s truly scary to think of how this generation is being raised and taught.
My respect for those who stay in the system and contend for the kids is boundless.
Erunner – “So many of these children come from homes that realistically can’t even be seen as homes. Many parents have zero interest in their child’s education outside of seeing the school as free babysitting. There is no attempt to encourage or help these children. I wonder what chance they have of staying out of trouble let alone in school as they get older.”
These are my students. I pray for them everyday.
In my corner of the educational world, curriculum isn’t nearly the threat that culture presents. The toll taken on young minds by poverty, divorce(s), drug/alcohol effects, transient families, lack of boundaries, over-indulgent parents, relativistic mindsets, porn, internet/cellular misuse, etc. have pillaged student motivation and achievement. The latest/greatest program or trend to roll off the line won’t fix it. Teachers of character who love their students (not only their subject) will make the difference. It only takes one, divinely positioned, to turn a life.
SnS,
JJS is going to be put through hell because of this.
You’re going through it now…but you will come out the other side.
Keep your friends close…
” It only takes one, divinely positioned, to turn a life.”
Amen, fil…and amen to all you wrote.
“State law now requires I teach about homosexuals in history only in relation to their positive contributions to history.”
Pretend you are in the 1950s, you are being asked to teach about “them folk”, and you are being asked to comment on the news that a lady named Rosa Parks dared to exercise her right to sit anywhere in public transportation without being harassed.
For your students, what you are modeling is not merely the outcome of accurate data transmission and their retention to be able to then test out with accuracy on the material, you are modeling the integrity of being able to look at a person as a person.
Great words, filbertz.
It really seems that a lot of parents are merely throwing their children to the wolves, and they don’t care what happens to them.
My son’s teachers, and the school administration probably cringe every time I call. I’ve been to four meetings with my son’s teachers this year.
On the other hand, I had approximately 170 students rotate through my room every day. My teaching team only met with 5 parents all year. I made countless phone calls to parents through the year. The responses were varied, but the essence of each one was “he/she is your responsibility, not mine.”
I will add on to what fil said…I thought I was furthering Trey’s educational opportunities by getting him his own computer.
I was wrong.
YouTube is not your friend…
Stellman’s resignation and subsequent announcement has definitely stirred the nest. I’m a bit surprised at some of the assumptions being tossed out as facts. Michael, I think you are wise in waiting for him to say more.
As to your #5, the landscape is vast and varied…a tour is in order. Christianity needs more pioneers, less settlers; more adventurers, less squatters.
DavidH and fil, You both have my admiration for the job you are doing.
My nephew is autistic, overweight, and a black kid adopted by a white family. He’s 11 so his mom let him set up his own facebook page. Within hours, his page was filled with comments from classmates…comments that had me considering assaulting a lot of people.
Needless to say, I agree that social networking is not always your friend.
#9. GKG! TWO MORE WINS!!!!
Just posting on the easy one.
Josh,
I have been stunned to find out what 10 year olds discuss at school.
The “rap” culture is as evil as the day is long and I’ll leave it at that.
If I knew then what I knew now, I would have disabled the internet completely on his computer unless I was present and watching.
fil,
Jason is brilliant and thoughtful and has been a friend of the blog…I owe it to him to wait until he speaks for himself.
Thanks Michael…we should catch up soon.
Michael @ 19 – Yep, terribly sad. The slurs thrown at my nephew were of the racial, weight, mental and sexual orientation kind. It hurt me as an uncle. I can’t imagine the hell he undures daily.
Josh,
I’m a pretty darn “involved” parent… and one of the dilemmas I’m facing now is how to be even more so and still support myself.
Without constant and consistent family care I fear for these kids futures.
Josh,
the bullies are everywhere. If you want to find their mentors, watch a few television shows aimed at the younger generation. The rudeness, disrespect, and insulation from genuine consequences is everywhere. Bullying is great entertainment, evidently.
I feel for your nephew. My son endured many of the same types of taunts until his sports prowess and fists’ reputation grew enough. His worst antagonists were a couple of teachers who had more power than brains. The damage a bad teacher can do is immeasurable.
fil,
It’s tv, internet, movies, and especially the music.
I feel like all hell has declared war on my kid.
My wife home schools our kids using the A Beka curriculum for many of the reasons listed above.
IMO, sending your young kids into the public school system is sending sheep to a slaughter.
Music was a tough one for me to give up the secular stuff. I wanted to walk closer to God and it was holding me back. Thank God I had a friend willing to help me out with getting rid of my records/tapes.
I may have to do that again when my kids start to check out dad’s music. I just pulled out a CD that I got from the library that I won’t be ripping.
Thank God there are Christian alternatives, but it starts with having to make that choice yourself.
E said, “DavidH and fil, You both have my admiration for the job you are doing.”
Amen times a million. Good teachers like DavidH and fil are, unfortunately, becoming a rarer breed. They have so much influence on the children of this nation. What an opportunity for them. It’s good to see the good examples. Thanks guys.
We have a filter on the computer, and I have to admit that some days it is a hassle because it blocks so well. Still…it is worth it because I have one curious boy who likes to look things up on YouTube or Google. The laptop sits on the kitchen island and they are only allowed to use it when we are in the room….so far those two safeguards have kept things sane.
We had the boys in a small Christian school, and overall had a great experience. We’re in a small town that still is family oriented. They’ve had a great childhood….they still play out on the street until dark when the kids from divorced homes are home (they’ve learned much about that). We still catch fireflies at night. We swing on the playset. We play too much x-box. I’m trying to do better in raising them to be quick to help….with chores and being aware of other’s needs.
We’ll begin homeschooling in the fall because of academics, not atmosphere (and because of money). The homeschool group we are part of is diverse and thinking and spiritually alive….
We are truly blessed.
I’ve seen my nephews go through having knives pulled on them (in preschool), being immersed in a sexually-charged and spiritually dull life. My husband’s nephew here has struggled with ADHD, dyslexia and other challenges, and we’ve walked through much with their family…he is the same age as our oldest, but in the same grade as our middle boy. They have met the full gamut of teachers.
We all have such varied experiences. My respect for those of you teaching in these difficult situations is immense, along with the others. Praying for great wisdom for you all, and for the energy to maintain the care of these young people….
“be every bit as zealous in preserving the unity of the Spirit with orthodox brethren”.
That exact point has been a primary focus of my irritating presence on this site for years – let’s reserve the charge of heresy for when it is justified. Throwing that accusation around cavalierly shows a reprehensible immaturity that I simply cannot stomach.
I have been called a heretic (by our gracious host), and so have Benny Hinn, Rick Joyner, and Todd Bentley, and others, either by him or by others.
I will believe you have changed when I see it.
‘Sinner n Saint’, I understand. I’m very close to a situation of this sort and nothing has broken my heart more than to see how someone is treated when leaving. They love you when you’re there, but when you’re not, you don’t even exist. I’ve known Jesus long enough to know that this isn’t His heart. But, nothing has shaken my faith in the ‘system’ more than this. If it wasn’t for my relationship with Jesus I would never set foot in another church again. I guess I was almost part of the thousands upon thousands that leave the church but not Jesus.
Summer said, “They love you when you’re there, but when you’re not, you don’t even exist. I’ve known Jesus long enough to know that this isn’t His heart. But, nothing has shaken my faith in the ‘system’ more than this. If it wasn’t for my relationship with Jesus I would never set foot in another church again. I guess I was almost part of the thousands upon thousands that leave the church but not Jesus.”
Boy, wow. Amen. I know you and yours and I know that pain well. I think your thoughts are spot on and I think you know the Lord better than any of “them” and God has used the pain to pull you away from something that wasn’t God. The “church” and the leaders can become “god” for many…and sometimes the devil’s greatest work is done in the ‘church’ by church “leaders”
SinnerNSaint,
I don’t know what all you are going through, but I am hearing a wounded heart.
Praying for you friend. May Jesus be your strength and hope. The new day tomorrow brings new hope.
Fil,
Your number 9…..wow! I keep reading it over and over. Such truth.
Blessings to all you teachers out there.
Dansk,
I may have been guilty of using theological language with imprecision.
While Hinn’s concept of the Trinity qualifies him as heretical, the other two may just be grossly aberrant religious criminals.
Thank you for allowing me to correct that.
Papias,
You have a great point about the music.
It is difficult…I utterly loathe most “Christian” music so it condemns me to a life without music at all, at least when the boy is around.
Hello,
Have a lot to say about #7. But I don’t the time right now since I’ve off
to work another 10 hours. Please count me on board for #8. Side note
homeschooled my son most of his life; because of my Faith and wanting to protect him.
Now he’s 16; been in the Public schools for a couple of years now. As a christian mom totally regret it. Have A good day.
Regret homeschooling, or sending him to public school later?
I would love to homeschool Trey, but it’s economically impossible.
Michael,
Most “Christian music” that gets played on the radio doesn’t get played on my Android.
If Trey is still listening to hard rock, there are Christian bands that play in a similar style.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_rock_bands (Also see the list for Chrsitian Metal bands)
I am not too familiar with the Christian rap scene, but Lecrae gets a play now and again.
3. Amen
6. Amen
7. Amen
9. Amen (As a Philly sports fan with teams in all 4 major sports, I can relate. I first started having an interest in following professional sports in 1983 as a 7 year old. Right when my interest started, the Sixers won the NBA championship. So I was aware they had won, but didn’t really partake in the celebration as I didn’t witness the victory and didn’t fully grasp what it meant. It then took 100 sports seasons (4 sports per year) until the Phillies finally won a championship in 2008 and it was the first time in my sporting life I was really able to celebrate. My teams did make the championship finals 7 times during those years and lost every single time. I had become conditioned to believe that even if my teams made the finals, they were destined to lose.)
And also just pondering if a “grossly aberrant religious criminal” is an upgrade from a heretic?
Papias,
We tried the alternative “Christian” rock…and it sucked.
I’m going to try some Christian rap for him…but he’s very wary after I tried to force the other crap on him.
Sinner n Saint,
Don’t know what you’re going through, but praying.
“And also just pondering if a “grossly aberrant religious criminal” is an upgrade from a heretic?”
RemnantXRadio has some really good edgy “Christian” music (rap included).
http://www.remnantxradio.com/#!music
Papias, Having seen you post for years which includes your church history articles I picture you listening to chamber music!
It’s interesting the different kinds of music we each listen to. When younger I was a hard rock enthusiast but these days pretty much everything tends to be mellow. Although I do confess to still owning several favorites from my rock and roll days they just aren’t too heavy in my rotation!
I’m trying to get more classical music into my life. My wife’s best friend is a professional violinist. My two kids have gone to a Lutheran college where music is very big, and there are a lot of music majors.
But I’m still working on it. If anyone has any tips or suggestions, I’m all ears.
Thank you all…I really appreciate the prayers. It’s a dark night of the soul but Jesus is faithful to make all things new.
Lut –
I almost think of becoming Lutheran when I listen to Bach.
You should be ALL OVER Bach and his Cantatas. You get them every week – don’t you?
Start out trying to find his Mass in B Minor(Choral), Brandenberg Concertos(Violin), Goldberg Variations(piano). Being Baroque, you can also check into Handel(Messiah) and Vivaldi(4 Seasons).
I am pretty much baroque in my classical tastes, but some Mozart and Ludwig stuff sneaks in.
#3 I agree fully. I believe the Enemy loves to see continuously disrespecting each other, with us fightin’ and wrasslin’ We can agree on major stuff with charity.
#5 Brilliant, Michael. I couldn’t imagine just reading Lutheran stuff and nothing else.
#7 I agree. Being a public school teacher has to be a major, huge challenge. Though my kids were HSed (one of them went parttime to the HS for several years), we need to support our public school teachers. Especially with certain politicians trying to make them major-ass scapegoats.
Yeah, I have listened to some Bach — Mendohlsen (sp?) was also a Lutheran.
Have you heard his Coffee Cantata?
Thank you very much for your advice.
I’m off to get a haircut…silently.
“alternative “Christian” rock…and it sucked”
I would be curious to hear WHAT you played for him….
Try this list then: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_metal_bands
Not all those bands are Christian though…..
FWIW and IMO . . . classical music is only worth listening to if the performer(s) and the quality is A-1 . . . then it can take one’s breath away . . . i think chamber music is by musicians for musicians and since i am not one, it bores me . . . just sayin
the main thought behind Christian music is born from the fallacy that worship = music. Keep them separated… like the Church & The State
Good music is simply that. Good music.
Worship = life.
Nomans – amen – it should be deep down in our bones – the very life in us indeed
Nomans,
That was comment of the day.
Well said…
Nomans,
You rock!
S&S said, “It’s a dark night of the soul but Jesus is faithful to make all things new.”
He will either in this temporal existence or at least in the next.
Alex, good point . . . He is slow, but completely thorough – which out to give us pause, too
You can’t go wrong with Bach. He did not write any bad music. Not a note. Sure, some of his music is less inspired in some cases than others but he never wrote a bad note. The Mass in B minor is amazing but it requires a vast amount of concentration to fully appreciate. Brandenburg Concertos might be a fun and light starting point. I’ve been immersing myself in the Goldberg Variations (Charles Rosen’s take is more fun for me than Glenn Gould’s, though). I’ve also been studying Art of Fugue, the Matthew Passion (which is amazing) and Musical Offering. The Well Tempered Clavier is a nice episode series of preludes and fugues that never gets old over the years. I’m partial to Angela Hewitt’s interpretations of Bach.
Heinrich Schutz (aka the Musical Preacher) wrote a setting of Psalm 119 for double chorus. This is more hard-core Baroque fan stuff but anyone who set all of Psalm 119 to music deserves mention.
For violin Gidon Kremer is good (and he’s got a famous recording of music by Arvo Part that I enjoy). ZOltan Szekely did a fun recording with Bela Bartok and benny Goodman (yes, that Benny Goodman) of a piece called “Contrasts” that Bartok wrote. I’m into a lot of 20th century composers but whether or not you dig Messiaen, Hindemith, Prokofiev, Penderecki, Villa-Lobos, Poulenc,Durufle, Stravinsky or Shostakovich I can’t possibly know.
An endless source of musical fun are Haydn string quartets. Keyboard music and choral music by William Byrd is also good.
For violinists I have almost every album ever made by Hilary Hahn. She’s amazing at interpreting Bach and I love that she’ll juxtapose a Sibelius concerto with a Schoenberg concerto. For cello check out Janos Starker and Jacqueline Dupre.
Em, amen.
Bach was an Alternative Rock LEGEND….back in his day
Wenatchee is ALMOST going to get me into a discussion around Bach.
Must. Resist.
Except to say that I got this set for two bucks, and its my fav Mass recording that I own: http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Minor-Mass-Johann-Sebastian/dp/B00001R3MY
Would like to find a set of Mattheus Passion for cheap, although I copied Herrewgehes version…..
Evidently, I’m the only one here with the boogie in his soul…right next to the blues.
Dansk said:
“I have been called a heretic (by our gracious host), and so have Benny Hinn, Rick Joyner, and Todd Bentley, and others, either by him or by others.’
I thought they were heretics, not you but the others mentioned
no boogie in my soul, but one on my finger.
Michael,
I love classical music. I also love Jimmie Lee, Jerry Lee and other cousin of theirs, Mickey Gilley. My preferred “alternative” music is bluegrass and hillbilly. Check out Dailey and Vincent and the Tennessee Mafia Jug Band. Too much RFD-TV………………
FIL!
For the Matthew Passion I’m partial to the Helmuth Rilling recording on Hanssler. It’s expensive but the Lutheran early music specialist I studied under said it was one of his favorite versions of the Passion. The
http://www.amazon.com/Matthaus-Passion-Matthew-Selon-Mattieu/dp/B000024P9U/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1338849072&sr=1-2
Glen,
There’s a very good new book out about the cousins…”Unconquered”.
I only have a little time to listen and they get it all…except for some good honky tonk or blues on occasion.
Thanks Michael,
I just put it into my wish list. I will have to figure out what to combine with it so I can get free shipping. The reviews sounded good. There was also a link to an early gospel recording by Jerry Lee that is available from third party vendors. I just might have to get that.
If you have never heard Dailey and Vincent, they have some albums available from Cracker Barrel that are real winners. There are sure a lot of bluegrass songs about heaven.
Praying for you and the other requests………..
Re: Sinner-n-Saint @ 6
I feel for ya.
Sang that song, but have lived to tell about it.
The wrongs that have been done will always be wrong … but you will see it in a new light one day and see God’s salve was on that wound far before you ever realized it was there.
In the meantime, I’m sorry this is happening to you.
Chile – “God’s salve was on that wound far before you ever realized it was there.”
Hmm…good word, I will think on this tonight.
Anyone know where I can find information or reporting on the CCSPC?
InterestEd,
It’s the quietest I’ve ever seen it…no live blogging I’m aware of.
I suspect that it was requested to be so.
Mr. Stellman’s blog response is another reason I refuse, outside of a few places, to ask questions of any kind with in the Christian Religion. It is not tolerated what so ever and you will be retaliated against, it is more sure then gravity, that is just a theory:) sorry.
Anyway the people from triablogue and other blogs are perfect reasons I would not dialog with that faith community. You would think these folks who have the faith down so perfect would be a bit more kind. I dont get it I really dont he is not hurting anyone else and from what I have seen he has discussed these things at length with his church and did the right thing when he could not come to agreement. Many of them call it apostasy which is stupid to be honest.
http://www.creedcodecult.com/2012/06/heartfelt-farewell-to-pca.html#comment-form
Michael, thank you for saying that you loathe Christian music. I do also and my Christian friends think I’m odd. I just don’t like it, I’m not blessed by it, and I don’t want any part of it.
Thought 8, I would!
Judy,
I always get people upset when I say that, but I have to be honest.
I’d rather listen to a chain saw than KLUV or KLOV or whatever that station is…
I like Pink Floyd and Widespread Panic.
I can’t think of a popular Christian band off the top of my head that I like.
Michael and Judy, if by Christian music, you two are referring to our expressions of faith in the music since the mid 20th century, can i join you? – with the exception of some on Erunner’s lists
Sol, a heretic is someone who openly endorses heresy.
For example, John Hagee started preaching a false soteriology – that Jews can be saved in a fundamentally different way from non-Jews. Rick Joyner graciously, publicly, and effectively corrected John, and John backed down.
Benny Hinn speaks extemporaneously in his meetings. When he has been called on the carpet over some unusual public speculations, he has always backed away from them. His statement of doctrine is orthodox. Todd Bentley is similar. If he were to take a public position that was heretical, leaders would not appear with him.
Carlton Pearson is a classic example of a heretic. He has taken a public position that is equivalent to universalism. As a result he is shunned, not for an errant statement, or for an unusual preaching style, or for asserting he had a strange vision (none of those are heresy!) – but for taking an heretical stand.
brian, you reminded me of something that i was thinking about this morning . . . i was asking myself this morning – since the folks in most of the churches are not any worse than the folks everywhere else, why do they get thru to me? why does it seem so wearying and discouraging to be among them? and myself answered me, “it’s because you can’t really enjoy your love of Christ among them . . . it’s almost as if we’ve embalmed Him and we’ve come there to view His remains
Michael’s #35 . . . i’ll buy that
Em,
I like Andrew Peterson and his stable mates… and he’s the last thing I think I’ve actually purchased in the genre.
to clearer, lest something think i’m complaining about churches being too quiet, i’m not talking about the form of worship inside the walls of anyone’s church – i am not
seems i can’t multi-task after 12 noon, let alone after 5 pm . . . don’t bother to decipher anything i’ve pontificated this eve
Sinner n Saint … you are in my prayers … so sorry you are going through this struggle …
I have many friends in the Christian music and in the secular music scenes. There are some really amazingly wonderful people, and some great music. Just have to search sometimes. I’m thankful for some music that my kids enjoy that does not throw around sexual innuendo or flat out sexual explicit descriptions. There have been quite a few songs that have spurred some decent conversations as well.
Michael any thoughts on why so quiet with the CCSPC? If they aren’t doing anything new why so quiet? Can you tell us what would be happening to a degree?
You can follow the Twitter feed at #CCSPC
The main thing happening is a recognition of Chuck Smith as this may be his last conference.
The other thing is positioning as Broderson and his supporters try to firm up his place in the movement.
Bryson will be trying to undermine this, while guys with every intention of leaving play their own cards quietly.
Skip was on Pastors Perspective today…positioning.
For most of the rank and file…just another conference.
Sarah, “I have many friends in the Christian music and in the secular music scenes.”. . . if they just used their talents to play the music i like . . . (course they’d all be broke
)
Em…it’s funny how much my tastes have changed. Andrew Peterson is one of my favorites, and we have lots of mutual friends. My love of many of these artists music increases as I know what type of people they are…
Just to be clear…I have no one reporting to me this year.
I forgot all about it until Friday night.
Since the Grenier incident and some outrageous crap that happened in Colorado, I really don’t care what they do.
The Colorado guy has a very high profile all of the sudden…which makes me want to vomit.
Michael, I agree with your assessment @ #91. I thank God that it no longer matters what is happening there.
I am probably going to an Anglican church for the first time ever this Sunday.
You know what I think about that?
It makes me warm inside.
What pastors conference?
???
MIchael and Sarah, when i named my book about my grandparents ‘Converging Streams’ i hadn’t seen this or heard Andrew Peterson that i know of . . . siitting in a chair in a chilly stream? i loved the song, but might have had second thots about my book title, if i’d seen the video earlier – enjoyed listening to him sing this BTW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gs3fg_WsEg
Michael, I wish I could afford to retire and come homeschool Trey for you.
covered,
When Don Stewart and Heitzig are the featured faces of the movement the first day of a conference the place is beyond my ability to deal with.
CK,
He would love you!
If I were wealthy, I’d hire you.
Em,
Andrew Peterson is awesome… Trey and I saw him in concert here and Trey loved it as well.
Reuben,
Let me know how it goes…
I’m off to bed, saints…back to work tomorrow.
#1 – see Twitter #CCSPC Apparently blogs aren’t cool anymore.
#10….from reading some of the comments over there it looks like he’s left a cult rather than a honest guy having doubts. sheesh. smh
Not only do I always consult NTWright … sometimes I eschew other consultations in the aftermath…
Now Michael… I wonder what you would conclude if you consulted his most comprehensive commentary… ROMANS… I would really love to know what you think of his work on 11 and of course the justification debate.
Because music isn’t to be shunned…
http://playingforchange.com/episodes/48/_Sittin_On_The_Dock_Of_The_Bay
Dread, have you yet read Wright’s Justification: God’s Plan and Paul’s Vision? I just finished it this past Friday. Previous to it, Evil And The Justice Of God. Good book.
Michael, Wright’s Romans commentary is in The New Interpreter’s Bible commentary but you can read his older article on Romans which was my introduction to him in the early 1990s:
http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Romans_Theology_Paul.pdf
The website has many of his articles, videos and sermons covering a variety of topics.
http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
I have no problem listening to either Christian or non Christian music. Christian talk and teaching radio is what I’m avoiding.
In fact I’m listening to a lot of NPR and, less so, classical, though for all I know the last original piece was from Tchiakovsky and they’ve all been repeating Mozart ever since.
The Young Restless Reformed types love Christian rap. Make sure their lyrical theology doesnt turn Trey into a mini Mahaney or little Challies.
I scanned the comments on Stellman’s blog. Lots of Job’s friends there. One of whom justified the frenzy by stating, and I paraphrase, if you want bloodlust, go to Richard Dawkins’ blog.
Well a Big Guy CC in my neck of the woods should “go back” in repentance to his former church and prove himself as a disciple. Instead, he is putting up his name alongside the word “comeback” in a new ” church plant” just a couple of miles away. Of course, it is the title of a sermon series. These guys do not know how to separate and distingush themselves from Jesus.
Sorry about posting comment this morning and cuttin out
had to run. Regret the public school of course. I WILL be
homeschooling 2012-13 school year. Praise God and
my son has realized a lot; and is totally on board with
it! But I had to trust God to watch over him (SON) entil
he understood somethings on his own. Being a single
parent tough. Especially raising a boy. Thanks
Totally agree Michael with #25 comment! Lots of prayer and staying in fight.
I agree with Phil.
Stellman sounds like a man of integrity who is honestly searching and seeking the Lord.
I think we can all have seen the sweet fruit from our dear sister Xenia who went through a similar journey 10 years ago.
It is sad how some people are commenting over on his blog.
Praying for him and his family today.
“I’d rather listen to a chain saw than KLUV or KLOV or whatever that station is”
Funny, most of my Christian music would sound closer to a chain saw than KLOV playing the same songs/artists OVER and OVER and OVER….
And yet, there is a difference between Good and Bad music – look at the fruit it produces.
http://news.yahoo.com/5-bodies-found-ariz-may-latest-drug-violence-030540894.html
Michael warned us
As to #1:
http://blogs.christianpost.com/voices-in-my-head/ccspc-2012-chuck-smith-opens-the-annual-calvary-chapel-pastors-conference-despite-battle-with-cancer-10224/
Michael, your number 94 “Since the Grenier incident and some outrageous crap that happened in Colorado, I really don’t care what they do.
The Colorado guy has a very high profile all of the sudden…which makes me want to vomit.”
What’s up with this? Are you going to have an article?
Michael. #8. If it happens in the timeframe of mid July to late August, then I would participate.
Nonnie,
I could and I probably should…but I won’t.
If I ran the story, people here would be amazed and upset.
Then I would be attacked and villified and his supporters would circle the wagons and absolutely nothing would change except my health and schedule.
It wouldn’t change the man in question, or CCOF, or CC in general, nor would it help the congregations involved.
Thus, it’s pointless to put myself through that wringer.
On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being Skip’s foray into OC or Kestler’s shenanigans, or the Smith/Kestler lawsuit, how does this CO rate?
Is it anywhere close?
I accept your judgement and certainly understand the concept of “not being up for a fight.”
Bless you!
I was exploring my church library and realized there is one small section of Calvary Chapel stuff. Really just 2 Heitzig books and a couple Greg Laurie books that I am sure of. There are a few others in that section that I am unfamiliar with the author. Looks like Billy Graham had a book club or something for a while, because they all have a similar seal on the jacket.
Anyway, just kind of surprised as PP was my only other connection to CC…and then I find those books in my library. I might even read them
Papias,
It’s about an 8…
Michael – I would concur with your judgment on this matter. You have taken the hits for many a battle.
And yet, I can see the value to having another source publish this info – by their own investigation.
Papias – “I can see the value to having another source publish this info – by their own investigation.”
I can’t imagine anyone with that much courage, not to mention how the “facts” of the case that are close to me appear to be rewritten already, just because the CC leaders feel a need to control the info as best they can.
They were forced to make some things public recently because the publicly fallen pastor in all of this is starting a new ministry in the shadows of the church.
But HOW all 6 pastors played “switcharoo” at the direction of the one maneuvering for prominence within CC is kept under a cloak of the public story … all the while body parts are sticking out from under the curtain behind them as they speak.
I would run it. I have a blog. I am done with coverups.
Reuben, I believe in speaking the truth, not playing the game the group invents for it’s protection and survival. I know you do too. But before you jump head first, I’d really pray and see what God says. What does He want to do at this time?
I’m NOT saying just trust God to take care of it since God uses people.
I AM saying that timing and the way that God wants to do it is important. Of course, you were probably already doing this or planning on doing this, I just felt I had to say it out loud just in case.
We had so much info and carnage in relation to our last pastor and some of his leaders that kept expecting to be able to simply deal with those things and make some progress; yet, God had a much bigger plan that we even thought of. He stopped us at several junctures.
In the end, God revealed much more, more than just our pastor’s failures, more than just our church’s loss, and became the quintessential example of how CC’s “independence,” lack of oversight, and other Moses Model leadership issues can play out in destruction without any way to stop it unless a judge gets a chance to declare a law was broken.
It revealed that other CC leaders did not even understand how the CC is truly organized when they bowed to the leadership of a man who had no legal or biblical right to move the men around, causing all sorts of havoc in each fellowship. The ripple effect was more like a small sunami.
Just double check, cause God may be cooking something up that is much larger than just this man and his issues. OR … maybe that is the point and the story would do just that? Dunno? May God guide you, Reuben.
Chile, I will mail ya.
RE Alex:
” My wife home schools our kids using the A Beka curriculum for many of the reasons listed above.
IMO, sending your young kids into the public school system is sending sheep to a slaughter.”
I’m a little late in catching up on the blogs, late in commenting; but anytime I read a comment like this in a well respected community, I need to voice my own opinion on this subject. After spending many years on the homeschool front (enjoyed it, too!) my husband and I became concerned about the elitist and sectarian attitude that I’d noticed creeping in, so similar to what I had known in Calvary Chapel before leaving it several years ago. All along, I’ve known many families in the church who do not or can not homeschool; many educators who, wether we realize it or not, can feel alienated by our homeschooling elitism; these types of comments.
Aside from a myriad of other reasons that compelled us to such a pivotal change, I had to face a deep and real truth that homeschooling played into my own personal tendencies toward fear as a mother: fears of making a bad decision; ruining my children’s faith… so many fears. But slowly and certainly, my kids were learning that “we are good” and “they are bad” by the continual isolation from any one different or outside of our faith and maybe from my influence also. Homeschool groups, homeschool sports, homeschool everything!! As a pastor’s wife, our lives were so insular in the church already, we simply had to ask, how are our lives at all reaching the world? How do we equip our children to really live in this world as lights in the darkness as opposed to doing our duty on the occasional missions trip or local outreach? I also came through a revolutionary change in my understanding of the gospel, so much so, that I’m not sure if I was really saved before… half kidding.
Now, our kids are flourishing in public school. Flourishing. We’ve had some very hard situations so far and they, no WE are definitely works in progress. In my opinion, public school is not the only option, it’s just one of several (just like homeschooling is). The question of how you educate you kids is first of all, a spiritual one; it’s also a personal one; and it is in every way about how you choose live your faith out and how to teach your kids to live out their faith every single day.
I’m not saying we’ll never homeschool again, but I do not see people, whether the teachers or the children in the classrooms, as wolves; but as those our family is called to to share the love of Christ with. The liberal agenda will continue to move in their vein; but the public schools are filled with people who need the church to simply be the church. And I don’t think doing weekly outreaches or bible studies sends the right message…. we will only visit you “outside the camp.”
Thanks to you teachers who give so much to our kids. We love and appreciate you!!
That’s it… Best to you all!
Julie
Very well said Julie!
I always felt safe and loved in my childhood church until they decided to start their own school. It was expensive and my folks couldn’t and wouldn’t spend money on it.
It didn’t take long till the preacher was preaching about the “evils” of public schools and the kids who went there. Telling the congregation how much better it would be to make sure their kids were safe and actually getting an education instead of running around with the heathen kids in public schools (not making that up)
It caused a great deal of pain because it make a division where there had never been one before and it caused the kids who didn’t attend there to feel like second class, less than, members.
I applaud your recognition and admission that there’s a “holier than thou” attitude that creeps in those situations sometimes.
Thanks
after raising four and watching my grandchildren’s experiences, too i agree that public, private or home schooling should *all* be considered, as laid out by Julie, on a case by case – as i understood her to say . . .
Just have to add… there are 6 children who my boys were able to pray the sinners prayer with and lead to Christ in their public schools. This would not have happened had I not “sent them into the slaughter”…
Sheesh.
When my children were of school age, we home-schooled the five of them for fifteen years. And we used A Beka,too. Out of the five, only 2 are practicing Christians who attend church. Homeschooling is no guarantee that they will grow up to be Christians. I knew probably 50 homeschool families and their kids are Christians at about the same ratio as mine. I know plenty of families who sent their kids to public school. Same ratio. I used to teach at an Evangelical school. The ratio there seems worse. I taught at an Orthodox school, same results.
Homeschool is no panacea, believe me.