Tamara Lunardo’s letter to her rapist.
Worship Leader magazine talks with a number of worship leaders, including Kim Walker-Smith (Jesus Culture); Reuben Morgan (Hillsong); Bob Kauflin (Sovereign Grace); and Hans Ives (Harvest).
The Coptic Christian Pope passed away recently and was remembered.
The director of the Blue Like Jazz movie claims the Christian movie community is ‘out to get us’.
A former worship leader at a Sovereign Grace church tells Wartburg Watch about his deconversion from Christianity.
Michael Kelley: “if today is indeed the worst day of your life, know that Jesus has been praying for you.”
Don Bryant: “NT Wright makes an excellent case that we have (misunderstood the gospels)”
Kathy Escobar’s ten ways churches are jacked up.
Cindy Cosper on her and her husband’s experience in the ‘church star chamber’ and thought conversion on the ‘hot seat’.
Fred Clark: mischief follows in ‘partisan’ Bible translations.
Bruce Reyes-Chow talks about his new online church.
Tony Jones on Mark Driscoll’s house of cards.
Hannah Heinzekehr reflects on Lauren Winner’s most recent book, Still.
Owen Strachan explains why he can’t support mixed martial arts.
Tim Challies lists John Owen’s two things to know about fighting sin.
Pat Robertson has now given his opinion on the Denver Broncos’ trade of Tim Tebow.
26 Responses to “Linkathon 3/22, part 2”
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Zowie, B, the linkathons are smokin’ hot this week, good work.
The Wartburg Watch article about de-conversion is interesting. I have always held that free will as I see the Bible teaching it allows that people can change the way they think. My neglect or abandonment of a gift in no way reclassifies the gift as a “not gift” in its quality, quantity or character.
I have several friends with a very, very similar story to the one outlined in that article.
It is heartbreaking and startling and bracing living with my friends who have the same convictions as ‘Doubting’. I always hope to stumble across the ‘magic bullet’ but how to balance that hope with simple love for a friend and not become an annoyance – knowing that I carry the stench of death.
Makes me cry out to the Lord for mercy and more hope.
From some conversations and from many years in the industry I E church I have often been seen as a functioning atheist. I am not really sure why but I have been told that what always amazed me is that it would not shock anyone if I “left the faith”. That would require to much energy, a mild yawn might come across like that. I would expect to get the your deceived by Satan, pawn of the devil and so on. But because I already am deceived of Satan and a Pawn of the Devil I dont get the difference. I just cant seem to want to walk away from Christ. I cant even get that right.
If I had it, I would give you one million dollars to never mention Mark Driscolls name here again! So over that guy already!!
The deconversion guy’s story is well worth reading. What’s especially sad is how he’s been treated by his family and friends.
It seems like this gentleman has been involved with a lot of hothouse brands of the Faith — CC, SGM, Vineyard, etc. There are lots of other options.
I really like what one respondent said, who said what I’d like to say, but much better:
“Evangelical/charismatic churches are oversold the idea that conversion or faith has to be a big “aha!” moment. For a lot of people, it’s not. And some folks say that as best they know, they have believed ever since they can remember.
After having gone through a toxic “church” experience(being kicked out was part of it) and almost 10 years of gradually “deprogramming,” I am – perhaps surprisingly – still a believer in Jesus. I am awfully gun-shy about churches, though, and I’m sure that some of the people whom I knew would say that I am now “unsaved.”
During my late teens-mid 20s, I spent a lot of time with Catholic charismatics, including a fair number of priests and nuns. From them I learned that doubt and questioning are OK; that they are an intrinsic part of faith… although a the time, I didn’t get that in the way that I do now. And the church I was raised in – Lutheran – sees it in pretty much the same way.”
What the issue is, is developing a market and street cred so if you are a Muslim convert that came over to the US as a Jr. jihad to take on America, then “converted” in a dramatic conversion you gain selling points. With that framework you can go on the circuit and score big. The fact you made most of it up has no relevance what so ever. You could be a Satan druid priest converted to the Christian faith, you to can go on the road and maintain a market share even after being outed, not the gay outed that is a real show stopper. Big conversions are in, like microwave ovens. The long rough road of conversion is actually always fake conversions as one needs a date and time, sort of like a stamp of approval. It had to be dramatic, cathartic etc.
The doubt aspect of faith was quite clear to me real early in my Christian experience, if you doubt God on any point even for a second it means you are spitting in Jesus’ face and re-crucifying Him and His blood was on your hands, personally. It really was terrifying deep down but it did keep order in the ranks or cut the dead and dying wood, which makes it effective, thus justified.
I have been seen as “unsaved”, “never saved”, “created from the foundation of the world to be a personal enemy of God” (I dont consider that a very healthy career choice but what do I know). We each have a roll I guess.
Of course I dont believe much of this now and realize its rather well nonsense.
Oh and for London Mark Driscoll Mark Driscoll, Ken Silva, Mark Driscoll …………
Sorry.
Re: Brian @ 3
“I just cant seem to want to walk away from Christ. I cant even get that right.”
I went through a serious rough patch at one point. My heart was hardening and I had such a loss of hope. If I told you the circumstances I’m sure you would not blame me. But I was very surprised that even in that context I found I could not really fully walk away, as you seem to be experiencing, yourself, Brian.
Truth is truth is truth. Though I thought I was throwing it all out, God sent me two people who asked me to tell them the gospel. No, they didn’t ask in those words, but however they said it that was the jist. I found myself passionately explaining the amazing gospel of forgiveness and love with tears streaming down my face. It was as if God used my mouth to remind me of His love and forgiveness for me. I limped from that encounter but began to walk with Him, again, slowly.
I don’t know your circumstances or the route God will take you, but clearly He holds you and will not let you go. Clearly He loves you.
Well see what ya did…ya went and said his name..no million dollars for you!!
Hey London, I didn’t say his name!!!!
The check is in the mail!
Hey bri…
Do you have any experience with successfully writing grants?
Owen Strachan’s little mma tantrum smacks of one placing a ‘liberty’ into a headlock or chokehold of ‘legalism’ and forcing submission. No “uncle” here.
I successfully write “grants” everytime I return-address an envelope.
just thought I’d “pass” that on…
Very funny!!
Yes several times, my employment now was based on a grant I was involved in.
I was watching praise a thon jan 1987 with Kenneth Hagin, it brought back a time when I went to a Kenneth Hagin meeting back in the mid 90′s I think it was. The first thing I remember was the offerings, I think there were 3 or 4 taken, one included a taking all of the change out of your pockets and putting it in. Dont get me wrong I never ever would ever be a communist and fault anyone for how they generate revenue. But I did struggle personally with it do to my spiritual immaturity and weakness. Now on the praise a thon he was talking about healings, to be honest I have never seen a physical healing not one time in my many years in the industry I have been in. I have prayed for them many times, to my shame, but I have never seen them. It is most likely because me or others lacked faith or were in sin.
But Mr. Hagin rattled of dozens of healings like it was common. I will admit I longed to see people healed, prayed begged for hours and days for such an event.It is wrong to need such events outside of some type of apologetic, but I am sure many of us have needed such a touch. Now I have experienced the grace through such struggles and the gentle healing of the soul in hardship that that is emotional and thus irrelevant at best.
One thing I have come to wonder about the faith is the catch 22′s that seem everywhere, ie you should seek healing, but if you are healed it most likely is Satan. You should pray for help but praying for help shows weakness so thus you are caught up with the Devil. You lean on a group of people and pray for healing and God gives you great peace in a situation, but this is emotionalism so it to is either your own wicked sinful nature or again being deceived of Satan. You know when you step back and look at it from the pov of an outsider, it really is a rather strange religion, it really is.
Pat Robertson might call down wild fires on CO this year.
Of course I know we are going to have wild fires this year, and it has nothing to do with Tebow or Manning. But Pat will make it about Tebow or Manning.
Some day, Pat Robertson is going to get hit by a truck, and it will be Pat Robertsons fault.
Salvation is a supernatural event. I do not see this anywhere in the discussion. If God performs a supernatural event (and I accept that there is great mystery in how much God is inlvovled and man is involved)- I cannot accept that any man can “choose” to undo that event. Based on that simple premise- no man can deconvert from a supernatural conversion to the faih
I must be the only one who doesn’t get NT Wright and his statements “We have misunderstood the Gospels” – up till he came along to enlighten us. His statements seem for me seem to be a case of “Look what I found that no one else has!”, while we have known that the Gospel is more than JUST justification by faith, although it contains it.
He sounds awfully convinced that that he’s discoverying things that no one else has considered, or that has been forgotten by the church at large?
Like I said, maybe its just me…..
@ Reuben – I can’t decide which guy is a bigger idiot – Roberston calling down judgment on the Broncos or Dick Durbin, Senator from Illinois who wants the Senate – in the middle of a war, a less than cozy economy and global strife – to investigate the Saints on the bounty situation. These morons offend both my kingdom sensibilities, and both kingdoms.
@18 – So there’s no change of thinking in degrees within that supernatural conversion? Everything about faith in the middle of that supernatural conversion is perfectly understood, those who are saved cannot change what they think about issues within the faith either, lest they infringe on the supernatural conversion given them in regards to the liberties within that supernatural faith?
Once we’re supernaturally converted, our will is supernaturally suppressed, omitted or deleted. I wish God would delete my will for looking at nudity and gluttony. And swearing. I would really like to curse less – at least I think I would, most days. But I’m probably wrong about that.
Rob don’t confuse sanctification with justification. Justification is a one time supernatural event. Sanctification is the lifelong process of attaining holiness thru acts of will supported by acts of faith. Once you are supernaturally justified there is no deconversion. Thats
That’s just silly
after reading here, sometimes i must conclude that it all depends on whether your tires are inflated to the proper temperature
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhm7-LEBznk&feature=player_embedded
Silly?
I’m glad you’ve settled it. Thousands of years of wonderment put to rest.
Whew.
Now if we could just explain it to those who are pretty sure they’ve walked away from faith in God. Tell them they’re being silly. I hadn’t thought of that.
How can anyone repay a debt that was paid by the blood of Christ and therefore release him/herself from that bond.
I have a feeling that a lot of people who think they have given up on Christ are going to awake in Heaven one day with Christ saying, “I’m sorry [not], but I bought you and you belong to me.”
Remembering that Christ bought us with blood, and not a price that anyone can repay, melts away many of the horrors this evil place can overwhelm my heart and mind with.
i’m late to reading these links, but Kathy Escobar’s one line worth hanging onto – IMO
“. . . self-preservation continues to be top priority.. . .”
it’s kind of bittersweet to read the words of these leaders, sounding as if they’re the ones who have *discovered* the problem . . . God bless them and keep them tracking now, but if they’d listened waaay back there . . . perhaps it’s the humility thing?
also, i’m a little tired of this being described as an evangelical problem . . . it may be a protestant problem, but “the faithful” so-called are riddled with it – maybe, it’s unavoidable . . . dunno