Linkathon 2/29
From one of our own: the ‘silly’ practice of fasting from Facebook.
IF __________________ you may have been raised as a charismatic.
Mark Dever challenges the Scot McKnight/N.T. Wright understanding of the gospel. (HT)
A story of forgiveness.
John Samson on the marks of a true church.
Well, if nothing else, these little guys don’t have a problem with obesity… (HT)
Smack talk, Martin Luther style! (HT)
Categories: Uncategorized
I plan to post a Linkathon 3/1 tomorrow night.
by BrianD on Feb 29, 2012 at 7:41 PM
glad i read the first link
by Em on Feb 29, 2012 at 8:01 PM
Sarah’s blog has been an encouragement for me as I observe Lent for the first time.
by Erunner on Feb 29, 2012 at 8:34 PM
For me as well, E
by Nomans on Feb 29, 2012 at 8:38 PM
what should I do/read if a child is being bullied?
anyone have any experience or advice, or anything good to read?
by jtk on Mar 1, 2012 at 6:41 AM
Luther smack talk – “You are like mouse-dropping in the pepper.”
(Chuckle….)
Thanks Brian D!
by Papias on Mar 1, 2012 at 8:12 AM
Luther is the Smack Talk KING of all time! LOL.
by Alex on Mar 1, 2012 at 8:12 AM
“what should I do/read if a child is being bullied?”
http://www.amazon.com/Art-War-Sun-Tzu/dp/0195014766
by Alex on Mar 1, 2012 at 8:13 AM
JTK…I don’t have anything off the top of my head. Hoping some suggestions will come (um. other than the ever-present art of war!
)
Thanks for the link, Brian! And the nice comments, Em, E and Nomans!
by Sarah on Mar 1, 2012 at 8:21 AM
Here are some Google search results, JTK. Maybe something there will be helpful.
Bullying is such a problem now days and does not seem to be handled well by teachers and school officials and the people who ought to be looking out for the kids, that my feeling almost is to just go talk to a lawyer, if you can afford it. School officials are more inclined to do the right thing if lawyers are involved; it shows them how serious the situation is.
by j2theperson on Mar 1, 2012 at 8:35 AM
JTK,
There are alot of resources for bullying right now. I was even reading this AM about a new movie “Bully” that the makers are trying to fight the R rating.
Now if it were my kid….all bets are off.
My daughter is taking TaeKwonDo right now and is a brown belt, and she’s taught not to “cause trouble”, but there have been instances where I thik she should defend herself, or at least tell the other kid “NO!”.
by Papias on Mar 1, 2012 at 8:56 AM
four prongs on the bullying fork…victim (target), perp (bully), bystanders (audience), fixers (adults). Research has shown the most effective remedy is to empower the bystanders to intervene…often by simply telling the bully to stop or tell the victim to ‘come with me’ and escorting him/her away.
by filbertz on Mar 1, 2012 at 9:29 AM
…most bystanders think it is the job of the adults to fix it so they don’t intervene. Adults have taught them that. Adults need to change the dynamic.
by filbertz on Mar 1, 2012 at 9:31 AM
Great word filbertz.
That reminds me of the gun advice. If a kid sees a gun lying around, he needs to run and find an adult. Nobody ever suggests teaching kids how to simply check if the weapon is loaded, and if it is, to unload it.
Meanwhile, while someone is looking for an adult (who too might be clueless on gun safety) some other kid picks up the gun and accidentally shoots somebody.
If just a few of the kid witnesses would step up and speak out, a lot would stop.
by Another Voice on Mar 1, 2012 at 10:03 AM
Uhh, AV, I get the point as it relates to bullying…but I don’t want my children anywhere around a loaded gun.
by Josh the Baptist on Mar 1, 2012 at 10:05 AM
“If just a few of the kid witnesses would step up and speak out, a lot would stop.”
AV…your comment can apply to other things as well.
The TGIF thread on the Bully comes to mind….
by Papias on Mar 1, 2012 at 10:10 AM
been pondering the bully question off and on this a.m. . . .
filbertz 4 pronged fork illustration makes sense to me (not the best of recommendations, i know)
empower the kids to step up and do the right thing? amen . . . this popular thing of keeping a low profile and running away can be overdone . . . perhaps, we need to rethink how we protect our children from life: do the right thing, but never take risks, never get involved etc. – i remember being a kid, we understood “fair” better than the adults IMHO
by Em on Mar 1, 2012 at 10:48 AM
Agree with Fil and AV. That’s what I’ve done with my kids in training them socially and with other potential dangers “inanimate”, such as tools and firearms. Turning the three prongs against the bully is a good thing.
by Rob Murphy on Mar 1, 2012 at 10:53 AM
Seriously, what do you think Jesus would do if He was standing right there and a bully was picking on a much weaker kid?
Don’t you think Jesus would have stopped the abuse to the weaker kid and then rebuked the bully and then forgiven the bully if the bully repented…rather than doing nothing and gracing the bully over?
I still don’t buy into the Gandhi Jesus stuff (thanks G for the spelling correction
) that says “turn the other cheek” means to tolerate and enable abuse in the name of Jesus.
Just doesn’t square with all the scripture about justice, Good Samaritan, “love your neighbor” etc etc.
by Alex on Mar 1, 2012 at 10:59 AM
Out of sheer curiosity – is bullying worse today than in previous generations, or is there just a heightened awareness?
by Martin Luther's Disciple on Mar 1, 2012 at 11:01 AM
Bullies intimidate by fear.
If you are not in the bullies cross hairs and some other kid is, you thank your lucky stars, especially if the kid is bigger than the other kids, and has his crew backing him up.
Expecting one kid to stand up (or defend another kid) to a bully and not get his own a$$ kicked sounds romantic or chivalrous, but its bs.
It “takes a village” to bring down a bully who has the backing of a crew.
Sound familiar?
by Papias on Mar 1, 2012 at 11:04 AM
seems to me the idea is to break up the “crew”
sadly, some kids in some areas join gangs just to survive – maybe, the problem is a societal one now – who do you call in? “gangbusters?”
if it is a gang in the true sense of the word, it’s beyond bullying IMO
by Em on Mar 1, 2012 at 11:33 AM
MLD, speaking for my generation (40s and 50s) it’s worse now – ramped up to a more destructive level, at least
by Em on Mar 1, 2012 at 11:35 AM
Pastor, Pastor,
As one also born in the first half of the last century, that was also my thought. You were more encouraged to “pound the living daylights” out of the aggressor.
One of my grandkids told me he was being bullied a couple of years ago (1st grade) – I told him almost what you mom told you… boy did I catch hell from my daughter in law.
by Martin Luther's Disciple on Mar 1, 2012 at 12:03 PM
Our educators here can verify this but I believe it is pretty standard in the public schools now to issue an automatic suspension to BOTH parties, with no desire to find out who was truly bullying and who was using self-defense.
Now, given my child is seeking to get admitted into one of the highest universities in the land, he can’t very well have a suspension on his permanent record.
So there you have it…not a good situation, is it?
by Another Voice on Mar 1, 2012 at 12:10 PM
I’d say if your kid can get away with beating up the bully, go for it. Fighting back beats swallowing it. Too often, that leads to depression and worse.
Unfortunately, we don’t live in 1945. Let’s not put our heads in the sands. I think it’s better, if you can, to work it out.
And AV is right. Kids, unfortunately, and too often parents, live in ADD-land these days when it comes to thinking through the (future) consequences of current actions. But it’s necessary, especially in a world full of Facebook and phones on cameras. It’s part of our duty as parents to help teens — their brains are over the place. Ours shouldn’t be.
by Lutheran on Mar 1, 2012 at 12:47 PM
This is my first choice on how to handle the bully.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvijyBIgazE&feature=player_embedded
by Martin Luther's Disciple on Mar 1, 2012 at 1:00 PM
I just watched Dever’s video.
When did the idea of nuanced views go completely out of fashion?
Why does every question today become either/or instead of both/in part?
by Michael on Mar 1, 2012 at 1:03 PM
As to bullying…
Trey has my permission to beat the hell out of someone who is trying to hurt him.
He also has my permission to use whatever wisdom and grace a nine year old can muster to avoid having to do so.
The bully I wrote about a couple of weeks ago has ceased to be a bully and is becoming a part of the normal social life of the fourth grade…I’m not sure that would have happened had he been extended a fist rather than a hug.
by Michael on Mar 1, 2012 at 1:07 PM
Michael,
I totally concur.
Plus, when I saw that Dever dissed the great John Stott, well, I almost stopped reading.
Too many Christians are into “either/or,” not “both/and” whenever possible — especially in the world of opinions. Opinions are not sacrosanct and they are not the Word of God — far from it. You can’t have a discussion about an issue if one side won’t admit that maybe someone else has a good point or two.
by Lutheran on Mar 1, 2012 at 1:08 PM
I didn’t hear Dever being too extreme there. I think Ur framed it that way, but what Dever actually said was hardly newsworthy. Or that’s what I thought anyway.
by Josh the Baptist on Mar 1, 2012 at 1:09 PM
Besides, I get so tired of the evangelism versus (fill in the blank) argument. I’ve been hearing that one discussed ad nauseum for, oh, about 30 years now. The world’s dying and we go on splicing and dicing…
by Lutheran on Mar 1, 2012 at 1:09 PM
Lutheran,
Worse yet, he took Stott completely out of context.
That’s darn near blasphemous to me…
by Michael on Mar 1, 2012 at 1:10 PM
I also have to quibble with my friend John’s marks of a true church.
According to Rev 2, all the sound doctrine in the world won’t keep the presence of God in a loveless church.
by Michael on Mar 1, 2012 at 1:18 PM
That Luther insulter is wondrous…
by Michael on Mar 1, 2012 at 1:55 PM
“That Luther insulter is wondrous…”
It rocks! I need to find a way to have it as an app on my desktop
I thank God for Martin Luther…gives me some little small bit of assurance and hope.
by Alex on Mar 1, 2012 at 2:05 PM
Thoughts on Bullies and bullying.
1) a couple of kindergarten girls were bullying James at his old preschool beginning of the year. I saw it when I would pick him up after lunch. They would also come “tattle” to me when I arrived. I told James to use his words and tell them “I don’t like it when you….” “NO!” Of course the girls would look to see when the teachers were not looking on the playground and push him off a bike or say some nasty little remark. Now when they tattled to me…..Oh yeah, I hate to say this, but I have had a few “cat fights” I know how we females think and that we are…..Very manipulative. I said “Really?, you’re tattling on my son to me because he told you to stop picking on him? ,You pick on him because he is smaller than you. You are not nice little girls at all and I would not want to be your friend” Girls value friendship. See What I did? Eyes got big……they never bothered him again. In fact they became sweet. Oh and the teachers did see this exchange and gave me a thumbs up.
2). When I have found my self in a situation where I was being bullied ( yes there were times) I simply made it so embarrassing for the bully that they never bothered me again. Seriously, being overly dramatic has it’s blessings.
3). I am worried about what the future holds for James as he gets older in school. He seems to have inherited all the small genes on both sides of the family tree. I don’t know what to do about mean boys. Will using his words be enough? It is different for boys than girls.
4) I know of a young lady who worried about getting kidnapped all the time. I told her one day…..You are too much of a pain in the butt to get kidnapped. Kidnapers don’t want trouble.
Maybe, same thing applies to being bullied?
5). I think I might be a bully sometimes, especially when I get pushed I fight back and being a female means it’s not pretty. Petty yes pretty no.
Ruby has to tell me to stand down a lot. Poor man. I blame it on being Irish.
by reubens wife on Mar 1, 2012 at 2:11 PM
It’s Irish Month!
I wish that meant pints of beer at the end of every day.
by Reuben on Mar 1, 2012 at 2:19 PM
Perhaps you want me to die of unrelieved boredom while you keep on talking.
From The Bondage of the Will, pg. 244 of Luther’s Works, Vol. 33
There is one I would like to dedicate that to, but I am not nearly as brash as Luther. Plus I have the worst head cold in about 5,000 years, and I am probably not thinking straight to begin with.
by Reuben on Mar 1, 2012 at 2:35 PM
Matthew 5:39-”But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.”
My daughter was getting harrassed at school and I told her to defend herself physically. She ended up slapping the boy. The school call me and told me that my daughter said I gave her permission to defend herself. I admitted to that and they railed on me heavily. No I just tell my kids to leave the situation if at all possible which ost of the time it is. So what if your peers think it’s soft, better to please Jesus than man.
by Solomon Rodriguez on Mar 1, 2012 at 2:53 PM
If there is abuse in a family then it needs to be reported to the authorities right away
by Solomon Rodriguez on Mar 1, 2012 at 2:55 PM
Matthew 26:52-But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
by Solomon Rodriguez on Mar 1, 2012 at 3:00 PM
I got bullied by teachers not by other students. The one boy at school who hassled me I ran into a wall with my shoulder and took a swing at. He apologized for his behaviour and didn’t bother me again. You can’t beat up teachers, though.
by j2theperson on Mar 1, 2012 at 3:16 PM
AV @ 26 “Our educators here can verify this but I believe it is pretty standard in the public schools now to issue an automatic suspension to BOTH parties, with no desire to find out who was truly bullying and who was using self-defense.”
I can verify it’s true. Automatically, we had to suspend both parties involved in a fight. It’s wrong.
Our current issue is that the kids thought we just didn’t know who did what so they started using their phones to record fights in order to help out the administration. Good idea, right? Well, 2 kids now have misdemeanors on their records because they did this. Apparently, the laws that try to protect kids from being beaten so other kids can record it, put it on U-Tube and humiliate them, are the same laws that punish the kids trying to help inform the school admin of what really happened.
The kids tell me they only know to run if there’s a fight so they don’t somehow get into trouble. No one is empowered or encouraged to help the underpowered. The bully is handed all the advantages.
by Chile on Mar 1, 2012 at 3:30 PM
all this talk about not being held accountable reminds me of a boy in the neighborhood who went thru school with my kids – did some really destructive things over the years – never held accountable, but he got an end of the year “most improved” award of some kind . . . the last i heard he was in prison on some serious charges . . . maybe some accountability would have turned him around . . . is it possible that not being held accountable as a child does not make the child feel better about him/her self?
by Em on Mar 1, 2012 at 3:55 PM
J2P said, “I got bullied by teachers not by other students”
I dealt with a bully at College of the Sequoias…who was a professor.
He mocked and intimidated and made fun of Christians in our large survey class…putting us on the spot often and embarrassing those less equipped than he was.
I didn’t like it. I was the lone person in the large Group who would stand up to him publicly and privately. I was also the editor of the school newspaper and dealt with him at the end of the year after taking notes for an entire semester and documenting his behavior.
I wanted to punch him out, but I used my brain and dealt with it w/o violence instead. Pretty safe to say he learned a lesson. He had to do a lot explaining to the administration and had to re-write some of his materials etc. and change his ways.
by Alex on Mar 1, 2012 at 4:09 PM
One of my kids got bullied in elementary school. By the time we were informed a year had passed. Turned out the kid bullied many over several years. The admin understandably felt for the kid since his mother had died and the issues he was facing were overwhelming.
I was impressed at how the principal of that school reached out over and over again. He bought the boy football equipment and paid his way. Had the boy eat lunch with the admin every day so they could build a relationship with him and hopefully speak into his life. The dad was given parenting classes and one on one care from the school. But in the end, the boy continued bullying, added s*x and drugs, and ended up expelled from Jr. High and wound up in juvenile detention.
The efforts made were laudable; however, other kids remained in danger and were regularly pulverized during this time.
by Chile on Mar 1, 2012 at 5:08 PM
“The Luther Insulter” – now we know where MLD gets it from.
by Pilgrim on Mar 1, 2012 at 6:30 PM
Aw, should’ve included a
by Pilgrim on Mar 1, 2012 at 6:31 PM
Ahhh Michael,
Love reading what’s here….never thought last week’s Trey story would be relevant so soon…..
thanks, all, for the responses.
I’ll never forget when I got my arse beat and I cried for a whole weekend.
I’ll never forget after 3 months of karate classes when I kicked the same bully 1 time and was forever left alone after that….and didn’t take anymore karate classes.
by jtk on Mar 1, 2012 at 6:35 PM
Pilgrim,
“The Luther Insulter” – now we know where MLD gets it from”
Ya gotta take classes – it doesn’t come naturally.
by Martin Luther's Disciple on Mar 1, 2012 at 6:38 PM
http://youtu.be/W3Yb_Q2cndQ
Um I have no words.
by brian on Mar 1, 2012 at 7:47 PM
Bob Lar$on has some new up and coming franchises in the pipeline Praise Jesus.
http://youtu.be/tyTnDqdFXLM
by brian on Mar 1, 2012 at 8:09 PM
I watched the La$on video.All I can say is, praise Jesus – they didn’t blame what they do on God.
by Martin Luther's Disciple on Mar 1, 2012 at 8:44 PM
Watching Hotel Rwanda and thought about this bullying discussion….especially the part about the eyewitnesses on the sidelines that do nothing…
I know all the arguments about how we cannot be the world’s policeman – but as the World’s Super Power it is hard to think that watching on the sidelines while 800,000 people were butchered is proper foreign policy.
And Don Cheadle is excellent in that movie…
Good night. And God help us all…
by Another Voice on Mar 1, 2012 at 9:02 PM
MLD I guess we can be thankful for that.
by brian on Mar 1, 2012 at 9:22 PM
I think Martin Luther would’ve gotten banned on here
by Alex on Mar 1, 2012 at 10:14 PM
” … eyewitnesses on the sidelines that do nothing…”
We taught our son to record with his phone, keep a lock on it, and don’t surrender it to authorities, just to us. We’ll do something from there.
To do nothing when someone is clearly causing harm …
To set the example for others by doing nothing ….
To allow someone to operate with impunity by my inaction …
Yeah, seems like that’s problematic.
by Chile on Mar 2, 2012 at 12:00 AM
@52, I thought the same thing. But now I want to read Luther’s stuff. Then I might wind up just like MLD.
Minus the Dodgers though.
by Reuben on Mar 2, 2012 at 4:21 AM