Why is part of the Internet down today? Google and Daily What explain why this is so, and why it’s important.
Christianity Today is against spanking. Denny Burk is against CT’s view.
Kevin DeYoung explains his view of who the 144,000 in Revelation really are.
Rachel Held Evans begins her discussion of Christian Smith’s book The Bible Made Impossible.
Chaplain Mike Mercer begins his discussion of John Polkinghorne’s book Testing Scripture: A Scientist Explores the Bible.
Tim Challies’ resources on healthy sexuality.
A partial transcript of the interview Premier Radio’s Justin Brierley did with Mark Driscoll (HT), and the link to the full audio interview.
Wartburg Watch says Driscoll needs to step down.
78 Responses to “Linkathon 1/18, part 1”
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I’m seeing unconfirmed reports of the death of evangelist R.W. Schambach on Facebook and Twitter; no official confirmation so far from his ministry’s website, nor from Charisma News. A Google search turns up zero reports of his passing (thus far).
http://www.facebook.com/pages/RW-Schambach/152634106580
http://schambach.org/index.php
Google etc are correct, the mega media people hate the internet unless they can suck bucks out of it, I understand as an american and in some ways as a Christian this should be my only goal in life. My point of view, stick it and grow up. Protect copy writes lol they slut themselves out in every way possible then cry when they loose a few bucks from some online service. They had no problem when they sold out to big corps with news coverage did they. Hypocrites. Mr. Schambach if true my sympathies to his family.
Mr. Droscoll step down, he has increased his population in his church, he has another run away book, he is raking in the converts. That means God loves him, period. He makes bank so he is of God. Step down that is stupid, unless it can make more bank in some back handed way then yes step down. If it gets you a bigger media piece of the pie. In that sense I would agree. They brought up some issues about his wife etc, step down because of that?? Stepping stone I get that path, but step down, nope unless you loose market share then you should step down in shame. I get that part of the Christian message. Nope Pastor Mark has the market, he has a growth plan, and that is all that matters. Cant hack it get out of the business, and that is all it is. Why do I feel sad about that, how pathetic am I.
I listened to the interview, ugg that was painful to say the least. Mr. Driscoll do you actually think that way?
If the numbers and influence prove anything then it might prove that Driscoll has things to learn from Osteen.
Censorship of the web amounts to the loss of more rights guaranteed by the U S Constitution. We really need to fight this, or we will end up losing all our rights.
I chronicled much of what Kevin De Young says when we went through the Revelation thread way back… thanks for posting this and keeping sensible thinking ALIVE about this issue.
on Mark Driscoll (i really struggle to call him a pastor)<
What a jerk… so what's new? Iagree that he should be removed from ministry or any other position of influence or authority in his, or any church. This man has serious problems.
In the business world, “making book” on an employee is tediously documenting an employee’s every misstep in order to build a case for termination.
It used to be done here. Not so much lately.
No respect for the Wartburg Watch hatchet piece on Driscoll. Even if their allegations are accurate.
We all look bad when someone makes book on us. If you are doing it to others, you are probably doing it to yourself. Enjoy.
way to obscure the issues with mark driscoll’s behavior and lack of grace and humility by attacking those who challenge. it’s always easier to shoot the messenger and impugn ‘his’ character than honestly and objectively deal with and consider the message itself.
In Christ
Michael
Years ago, RW Schambach kept me awake with my eyes on the road when I did a lot of cross-country driving late at night. May have saved my life, even. I recall going to see Schambach once in Phoenix, Arizona at the convention center. Parked behind the building by the stage entrance was his white Lincoln Continental and big semi tractor-trailer rig, with giant letters spanning the sides of the trailer: J E S U S. And painted on the back door of the trailer, for the sake of those driving behind the rig on the highways, was Schambach’s trademark declaration: “You Don’t Have Any Trouble – All You Need Is Faith In God!”
Before that “tent-meeting” in Phoenix I had never seen any photos of RW Schambach. I went with a friend. It felt like we were the only white folks there amongst the thousands in the predominantly black crowd. Amazing. And there, on stage, in a white suit with his flowing white hair, was RW Schambach!
Later, when I attended Robert Tilton’s Word of Faith Bible College in Dallas in the 1980s, RW Schambach was a revered adjunct professor there, along with TL Osborn. Some may look back and criticize the ministry of those men, but at that time in my life, as a new follower of Jesus, their fiery oratory helped fuel my enthusiasm and strengthen my faith. In times of trouble or discouragement since then, I have often gotten out of my funk by remembering how Schambach always signed off: “You don’t have any trouble – all you need is faith in God!”
Amen.
RIP
Wait – didn’t you just shoot the messenger?
I am in agreement with the CT article.
The stories of abuse make by blood BOIL.
The Church needs to more clearly define what proper discipline is and heavily rebuke and report where they see clearly state-defined lines being crossed.
Hate to break it to you, people can be very evil and say they are “just doing what the Bible tells them!” yet the truth is they are sick sadistic bastards who should be put down like a rabid dog.
actually no, i didn’t shoot the messenger. i shot at your ‘message’ shooting at those who would ‘make book’ on mark driscoll.
i took no shots at the ‘messenger’ as you did when you said ‘We all look bad when someone makes book on us. If you are doing it to others, you are probably doing it to yourself.’ i drew no inferences about you personally, but only your message which, again in my opinion, does more to ‘shoot’ those who would dare challenge or bring to light the unchristianlike and boorish behavior of mark driscoll and his ilk.
you and i have never met, i don’t have any idea how you conduct your life or what kind of disciple of Jesus you are. i was challenging the ‘validity’ of your turning the argument around against the critics. that’s all. no harm no foul. the last i will say regarding the comments.
be blessed In Christ
be blessed
Hey, “making book” on those in Leadership (politics, church) is part of the dealio. Just make sure the “book” is accurate and put your name on it…or be prepared to give an answer and be held accountable.
Seems like Paul the Apostle commands us to “make book” on Pastors, Elders etc.
Ever read 1 Timothy 3 or Titus One?
Well, I am a little sensitive on this issue.
There could be a (very short) video showing me healing the sick, leading people to Christ, and humbly and selflessly following the leading of the Spirit only for the joy of serving Him and blessing others.
Or a much longer documentary, showing me losing a battle with the refrigerator at 2 in the morning. And of course much much worse.
It does all seem a bit tabloid-ish at times.
Might I add a cautionary tale, be careful of your bi-laws.
http://www.larknews.com/archives/3889
FRESNO — After repeated conflicts with his church board about the direction of Family Life Center, pastor Dave Chandler decided to leave the church. But on his way out he used a little-known clause in the bylaws to singlehandedly hire a new worship leader: Bill MacNerny who specializes in “alien folk music” and “tunes for chickens and other intelligent beings.” MacNerny was last employed as a street performer in Key West, Fla., and has made several albums of himself playing the ukelele and making barnyard sounds.
“We’re in a true bind,” says board member Jeff Garrety. “We couldn’t believe when this bozo showed up to lead worship.”
The quirk in the bylaws gave Chandler sole authority to hire and fire the worship leader and to define contract terms. The contract includes a severability clause of $150,000 if MacNerny is fired before two years. It also specifies that he must lead worship on Sunday mornings and any other time the church meets. Lawyers informed the board that the contract is legitimate and must be respected.
On a recent Sunday morning, MacNerny opened the service with a rendition of “Amazing Grace” in which he encouraged audience members to make “Martian noises.” Few people joined in. He then segued into “This Old Man, he played one, he played knick-knack on my thumb” and seemed unfazed by people’s non-participation.
The church has tried to work around MacNerny by cranking the volume of everyone else on stage and having other musicians wear brightly colored clothing. Still, it’s hard to look past his signature look which he describes on his web page as “Where exactly am I?”
“It saps part of your soul to show up Sunday morning and see Bill in his undersized cowboy hat, strumming the ukelele,” says one man. “A lot of people are trying out other churches.”
Some want the church to pay $150,000 just to get rid of MacNerny. Others want to make the best of it for two years and say it could bolster small group participation.
After making a series of weird noises he describes as “me entering the room,” MacNerny says in a phone interview that he is happy to be at Family Life Center because it offers a built-in audience and less reliance on tips. Street performing taught him to hold people’s attention, a skill he hopes to employ at the church, along with “making sure people get their proper amounts of of gamma rays, and also consider poultry ownership,” he says.
Chandler, in between ministry assignments and living in Alabama, says he thinks MacNerny makes a good fit for the church, and for the board members. •
I don’t think Driscoll needs to step down, I think he needs to decide what his calling is.
Pastors generally spend most of their time with their people in their churches…
Rob,
That is really sad and really funny in a sick, twisted way…
Trey is against spanking, too…
Bishopdave loves and highly recommends larknews.com.
my mom always said that when you spank your child correctly and appropriately, you give them the ability to make a decision. she said it ususally doesn’t take long before the child no longer needs the spanking to understand.
thank God for my mom who gave me the ability to make a good decision based on right and wrong, rewards and consequences.
my heart cries for those who have not had this appropriate, godly, and biblical discipline because parents thought they knew better than God’s Word.
but my heart cries out ‘more’ for those who have suffered under the abuse of this disciple by those who have applied it incorrectly, inappropriately, and without compassion and care for the children.
let us please not dispense with the first for fear of the second.
In Christ
michael
Official confirmation of R.W. Schambach’s passing
http://www.schambach.org/
Hey all….a friend of mine, Gianna, has a video going around the web. She is an abortion survivor…amazing story. She’s an amazing girl. Watch the video on the link…they have a movie coming out that is based loosely on her story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dQ6RMcus-Do#!
the only sad thing about spanking a child is the adults’ distortions of it – can one raise a child and never apply instruction to the seat of their understanding? probably . . . i do know that great harm is done to a child by offering them sympathy when an honest and loving parent has applied correction to that child . . . such sympathy is soaked up by a child and is as good for them as sugar is to an insulin dependent diabetic – grandparents and divorced parents beware IMNSHO
All in favor of Driscoll stepping down raise your glass…er uh … hand!
Love the blog post on neo-calvinist sex.
i’ve given Driscoll the benefit of the doubt – and still do, because the atmosphere of modern times call for a more blunt approach to things s*xual
however . . . i am listening to the recording linked above and he, Driscoll, is again trying to make his point about his understanding of s*x – in Seattle or anywhere else, i guess
his rationale: if the Bible doesn’t forbid it, it’s all right . . . weeel, gotta say, he needs to reread Ephesians 5 – maybe a little Lectio Divina time for Pastor Mark?
common sense says some of his paraded practices are, according to Ephesian’s, too shameful to even speak of . . . common sense that nature teaches . . . i don’t know if sin and shame synonymous terms? probably there’s some wiggle room, but gee whiz
I think I track with Michael on Driscoll: Good evangelist (maybe), good pot-stirrer and good promoter, good attention-getter etc…but good “Pastor”? hmmmm, dunno.
Driscoll a good evangelist? Maybe in that he appeals to other men who are glad to find the good news that they can be saved and still be mysognistic, selfish, and find a good christian girl at church to meet all their needs. To me, he is another Todd Bentley type, minus the signs and wonders.
I think he’s been pretty clear over the years his role is “small `’a'” apostle. He considers himself a church planter/missiologist rather than an actual shepherd. So he does evangelism and church planting type things rather than focus on shepherding/pastoral work.
Of course, that’s part of the controversies that will surround him, saying you have the “small a” apostolic gift still convince everyone you really think you’re just a nobody trying to tell everybody about Somebody. The small a apostle claim can come off like saying, “Oh ho ho, I’m not Superman, I’m just Batman.” He’s clarified what he thinks his calling is over the last ten years.
i am literally snowed in, tired of writing and looking for diversions, so maybe the Driscoll matters fits . . .
i like both pappy yappy’s and Anne’s observations . . .
Driscoll has the bluster of an insecure gang leader at times – now he’s beginning to look to me like he’s reached the limits of his reasoning capacity and has gone into some sort of “i’m on the right road, straight and level and i think i put it on cruise control” mode
He’s asking more of himself than God has given him to handle, i suspect
is he just another overloaded bandwagon case? when the movement is bigger than the man can manage, when it gets labeled a “mighty move of God,” it might not be God’s and the man may not be doing what God called him to do . . . or so it seems to me
my #34 has a ‘now’ where it should have a ‘not’ – should anyone plow thru the comment, my thought is that “it might *not* be God’s [move]
Em, fixed!
My mind was made up the minute I found out that he told the world his wife’s wrongs. I don’t give a flying bleep bleep bleep what planet he is on, where his theology sits, or how much money he pays to watch UFC fights 10 nights a week.
And I don’t care if Grace is cool with that. She is a subservient bed slave to a man who is the worst kind of “complimentarian” example on the planet, gift wrapping it in girl pants.
He proved where he stands in the marriage, and showed how he treats his wife. Nuff said.
He may indeed be an “a”postle. It’s clear to me he has a good gig at Mars Hill: he can call himself a pastor, teach, “cast vision” without getting into the nitty gritty of people’s personal day to day lives. Perhaps this is because the Bible doesn’t recognize the modern offices of lead teacher and visionary. Perhaps it’s because he is introverted, which I can relate to. Maybe he never ever wanted to mess with the day to day stuff, to minister to messy people up close, daily.
He clearly is an influential public figure, and anything he says, does, and advocates, to the degree it influences the public, needs to be discussed, critiqued and, if appropriate, condemned and rejected.
Reuben – thank you
and i think another man is better able to make a judgement call on the fella than an old lady is – pondering what you see there
“pondering what you see there”
What I don’t see is this…
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her;
that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she should be holy and blameless.
If anybody sees Mark accomplishing that command of the Word of the God of the Universe through broadcasting vivid sexual dreams about his wife to get her to fess up to a sin of her youth, I will go ahead and recant right now.
BrianD, that’s a good point – “cast vision” without getting into the nitty gritty of people’s personal day to day lives.” don’t think i’ve got my mind around ‘vision casting,’ tho
thanks for the news of Schambach’s passing – thot he already was – don’t know too much about him, but always thot he was on the right side
NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.
I seriously thought about writing a gigantic rant over this issue on my own blog, right after I de-friended the slime bag on FB, and figured that I would be a single voice in a sea of voices, and get 6 hits as usual. At least here, 8 people will read my abbreviated version.
Rueben’s #39, amen – makes me think he may be beyond his limits in the Body?
Listening to the Driscoll interview, I thought, he doesn’t have a love your wife problem. He has a love anybody problem. His lack of common decency towards another brother left me as appalled as his marriage counseling.
Anne, do you think he might just have a lack of discretion – male crudeness? Or, is he an out of control, over his head Christian pastor? am i asking questions that we can’t answer?
IMV, It doesn’t matter whether it is a lack of dicretion, male crudeness. Despite having the “right” theology for his circle, he is walking/talking in his flesh, not exemplifying the fruit of the spirit or the maturity and wisdom one might expect or want from one representing the Christian faith to an already scoffing world. His “style” resonates with other men, for all the wrong reasons as far as I’m concerned. He is a perfect example of a christian celebrity, good for numbers and $$. A pastor? A teacher? An evangelist? Does not compute.
An example would be any of the men (or women for that matter) here on PP who sometimes lack momentary discretion, slip into crudeness of speech in the heat of the moment. It happens. We are human. We repent. We do not glory in it and try to influence others that not only is it good that we do, but they are somehow less than if they don’t. That was the over-riding impression I got the interview.
Listening to the interview. 3 times now he has pulled the, “I am a pastor” card when someone questions his writings.
FAIL
Heavens to betsy, Reuben! 3 times??!!?? I barely made it through once and still feel sooo yucky!!!
I found out that if I come home from working on roof top units all day and I don’t wash my hands, my wife gets sexually frustrated with me, and Jesus is not in my marriage.
Wow.
Glad that got cleared up.
Duh. I’m still reading challenged since my strokes I think. I thought you said you listened to it 3 times, LOL!
No pastors in Europe. You don’t work in the UK. Your pastors are liars and wimps.
you all are helping me think about this – and pray- i have a grandson (very tender hearted fella) and his wife sitting under his ministry at one of those satellite church thingies – thank you
This is horrifying…
Anne, i read it that way too . . . i thot, my goodness, Rueben is really trying hard to be fair minded
12,000 people, not like London, 14 locations, not like London, started in my living room, not like London, most educated, not like London.
Ass.
God told him to say that, by the way.
“You look at your results, you look at my results…” blah blah blah
train wreck
The single most insulting interview I have ever heard in my life. Arrogant!
You guys still paying attention to Mark Driscoll??? Let me explain – the man is irrelevant to the larger world of Christianity.
Out of the very small group who even know who he is, half are mindless followers and the other half are mindless distractors.
Wise advice, MLD! I think I’ll follow it. I’m mindless enough as it is
Perhaps I should market a Driscoll Doll…
…with miniature tattoos that one can stick on and wash off…
…with MMA outfits, cowboy boots, and speedo swimsuit…
…with a completely posable, flexible “wife” doll that wraps around his little finger…
…and a voodoo stick pin.
Sigh. Here are the ambulance/fire dept/ police again. My apt window overlooks the street. The last two weeks has been a steady stream of folks in crisis being taken out of the building.
To add to my earlier comment, anything Mark Driscoll has to say that is edifying, encouraging helpful, and or Biblical, needs to be recognized as such.
The good in his ministry, though still doesn’t exempt him from criticism for the bad, crazy, ridiculous, unhelpful, damaging and or hurtful things he says.
Agreed, BrianD, that’s why I think it’s important to remember he asked Mars Hill to donate to the food pantry of the Port Angeles food pantry of the Salvation Army after word got out that a literal ton of food had been stolen. I used to work for the Northwest Division of the Salvation Army before the recession hit and I lost my job so I’m in a position to know that 1) that corps has had some tough times and 2) that it was good for MD to use his rock star pastor status to urge MH members to be generous in giving to the food pantry.
I’ve made more than the usual number of criticisms of Mark’s theology and teaching over the years but I’m proud of Mars Hill and Mark for moving quickly to help the Sallie at what is still a rough time for them. Would that he did more stuff like that than book tours on marriage. Considering how egalitarian and Arminian the Salvation Army is some folks might be surprised Mark decided to appeal to MH members to give.
RW Schambach, the best fundraiser TBN ever had. I wonder if he worked on a commission % when he was fundraising for them.
Maybe I need to change my name to Becky Controversy
Ya know to show my submissiveness. 
My honey husbands comments made me laugh this morning. Wow that interview really got to ya.
Here I am the one who thinks Driscoll is a pig (sorry piggies that is so unfair) and truely would enjoy seeing a female take him out. As in a ninja beat the crap out him him move. Or something similar. I finally listened to the interview and my take is this:
I think Driscol means well, but is just extremely PROUD. He talks about men not growing up. When he himself needs to Grow up. Grace was not ignored in the interview. He never gave her a miniute to say anything. He needs to turn the other cheek. Take critizism like a Man. Suck it up and be a Man.
Mr. Driscol Please do us all a favor and stop being the 14 yr old boy. And do some sit ups dude…..that belly is sooo unatractive. Lay off the jelly donuts for your wifes sake. 
Okay
Carry on.
MLD, you bring wise and pithy observations to the PhxP – i think you’re wrong about Driscoll being irrelevant, tho
he actually reminds me a bit of my late mother in law – sincerely saved, but strong willed and agressive to a fault – i’m not sure what to say to my grandson and his wife about this man . . . he seems to evoke emotions here similar to what we feel when some grease monkey (mechanic) presents us with a bill for fixing our car and we’re pretty sure he hasn’t
i do confess, however, that i’m not all that offended by him – maybe my age makes him kind of irrelevant to me, but he, like Chuck Smith, waded into a generation of alienated youth and made Christ real and relevant – just can’t dismiss that
Driscoll is Driscoll, can’t really take him too seriously. Who really knows what happens behind closed doors, they may have a better marriage than most. He’s reminds me of a lot of guys, just likes sex a lot. Now I don’t need to hear it from him or any of his sexcapades and their book is probably a sensational money grab but hey that is what institutional Christianity is all about anyways much of the time. Driscoll probably doesn’t have the holy spirit in him and that’s may be why you see him being overfocused on the things of the flesh. The other end of the spectrum though is the Rachel Held Evans of the world with their feminist veiw points. I believe Driscoll is a false teacher anyways but at least we know where he stands unlike other deceivers out there like Chuck Smith, Greg Laurie, Rick warren and John McArthur. At least Driscoll isn’t trying to get points by pandering to the women in his congregation as I see so many false Pastors do. My former Pastor Pancho Juarez always use to rail on the men in church but coddled the women so that he could look like the good guy to them. I called him on it and boy was he prideful in his response. Every man and woman needs to work out thier own salvation with fear and trembling. The institutional Church of today spends far too much time bashing Men and elevating Women ala Oprah Winfrey and Dr. Phil. We don’t need that grabage in the Church, just preach the word and nothing else.
@19
That is hilarious! I can think of a few churches where this worship leader might be a good fit………….
Does everybody really think that there was not any significant ministry in the core of Seattle before Driscoll? Seattle, aint that hard or hard edged. Lived there 10 years, ministered in homes, workplaces and on the streets where Driscoll has built out warehouses.
Driscoll did not wade into a group of young people on the streets of Seattle. He began setting up shop and marketed others who were already discipled and being discipled. He marketed a group of proven elders, and then marginalized the ones he could not manipulate. And then he wrote pr pieces on his actions to spin the story and spiritualize it and present himself as a man who just needed to find and define his calling.
Grace’s father is supposedly a Mars Hill pastor now. Man, if Driscoll pulled that crap with my daughters, I would risk the possibility of a future prison ministry or a rap sheet to clean his clock.
My Bible says that a manifestation of a gospel of Christ will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of to the children to their fathers.
I was raised by man, am a man and disciple young men in addition to my daughters. I have the attention of Christ and He has my attention. Mark still lusts after everybody else attention. In the Bible that is a major problem.
Here is a link to some reflections centered on the memorial service of a real man of God.
http://www.lausanne.org/en/blog/1757-portrait-of-a-christian-leader.html
Mr. Driscoll developed a market by leveraging other people’s work. Polished the product and created a very lucrative franchise. That alone justifies everything he does, at least this is how I have been told the American Religion should work. It does not seem to fit in with the Faith of Jesus but I have come to understand Him and His religion are irrelevant. Being the degenerate I am I have not been able to really believe that.
brian. From one degenerate to another. Hi!
Vic,
Thanks for the post about John Stott. I agree 3000% –he’s a true Christian leader and hero.
He’s someone to emulate and you can’t go wrong.
He was (and is, even though he’s with the Lord) an inspiration.
I wont repeat what I have heard some real Christians said about Mr. Stot. As a heretic and most likely an apostate I found him a faithful follower of Christ. Some in the blog sphere mentioned his age and spoke of Billy Graham as also an apostate. I have never understood the modern apologetics loathing for the elderly but it is quite pronounced in the circles I ran in. I guess it is something like, age denotes weakness and death thus it is a sign of the fall. Personally I find such childish twaddle to be psychotic babble from people who need to grow up and get over themselves. I did struggle with Graham’s support of such folks as Pres. Nixon and he came off as a nutter when he spoke of some issues back then. But we are all nutters from time to time. I try to look at the entire life, not just some back water aspect. Of course that makes me even worse because I am a compromiser as a real christian and apostle of grace I need to understand a true child of God does not make mistakes, ever. Actually a true child of God does not need God, which sounds a bit silly but is very true if one reads between the lines.
You know from the cheap seats this really is not good news, some of us, in the out field would wish that they would stop calling it that. We really do. Sort of like false advertising.
I watched several videos concerning Newt Gingrich I must admit he truly personifies my experience in the evangelical faith in america. The way he was able to toss his wives off with such efficiency one must really admire that. Also the open marriage idea, that is also pragmatic, an other spiritual gift, at least from a pragmatic evangelical perspective. Mr. Gingrich is pragmatic and efficient, I must admire that as an American Christian, I cant seem to do that, and I consider that a personal weakness. One fault I found in the news reports, something rather vile and even apostate. On several occasions he asked for forgiveness. That is just not an option and never, outside of gaining some apologetic leverage, should never be done. Apart from that display of weakness one must admire his efficiency and his pragmatism.